Do you think John Kerry is a back-stabber?

All Things Vietnam...........

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Morpheus
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Do you think John Kerry is a back-stabber?

Postby Morpheus » Wed May 17, 2006 4:32 pm

Others have described Kerry coming home and protesting against the war as back-stabbing his fellow soldiers. Do you see it as this? Do you believe that the things he testified happening over in Nam really happened or was he lying?

I, myself, see it as trying to make things better, questioning the leadership, not the soldiers themselves, and what is wrong with that?

Here is a copy of his speech in 1971 in front of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee:

I would like to talk on behalf of all those veterans and say that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation. The term Winter Soldier is a play on words of Thomas Paine's in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriots and summertime soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.

We who have come here to Washington have come here because we feel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country, we could be quiet, we could hold our silence, we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, not the reds, but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out....

In our opinion and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart.

We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever, but also we found that the Vietnamese whom we had enthusiastically molded after our own image were hard put to take up the fight against the threat we were supposedly saving them from.

We found most people didn't even know the difference between communism and democracy. They only wanted to work in rice paddies without helicopters strafing them and bombs with napalm burning their villages and tearing their country apart. They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone in peace, and they practiced the art of survival by siding with whichever military force was present at a particular time, be it Viet Cong, North Vietnamese or American.

We found also that all too often American men were dying in those rice paddies for want of support from their allies. We saw first hand how monies from American taxes were used for a corrupt dictatorial regime. We saw that many people in this country had a one-sided idea of who was kept free by the flag, and blacks provided the highest percentage of casualties. We saw Vietnam ravaged equally by American bombs and search and destroy missions, as well as by Viet Cong terrorism - and yet we listened while this country tried to blame all of the havoc on the Viet Cong.

We rationalized destroying villages in order to save them. We saw America lose her sense of morality as she accepted very coolly a My Lai and refused to give up the image of American soldiers who hand out chocolate bars and chewing gum.

We learned the meaning of free fire zones, shooting anything that moves, and we watched while America placed a cheapness on the lives of orientals.

We watched the United States falsification of body counts, in fact the glorification of body counts. We listened while month after month we were told the back of the enemy was about to break. We fought using weapons against "oriental human beings." We fought using weapons against those people which I do not believe this country would dream of using were we fighting in the European theater. We watched while men charged up hills because a general said that hill has to be taken, and after losing one platoon or two platoons they marched away to leave the hill for reoccupation by the North Vietnamese. We watched pride allow the most unimportant battles to be blown into extravaganzas, because we couldn't lose, and we couldn't retreat, and because it didn't matter how many American bodies were lost to prove that point, and so there were Hamburger Hills and Khe Sanhs and Hill 81s and Fire Base 6s, and so many others.

Now we are told that the men who fought there must watch quietly while American lives are lost so that we can exercise the incredible arrogance of Vietnamizing the Vietnamese.

Each day to facilitate the process by which the United States washes her hands of Vietnam someone has to give up his life so that the United States doesn't have to admit something that the entire world already knows, so that we can't say that we have made a mistake. Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the first President to lose a war."

We are asking Americans to think about that because how do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?....We are here in Washington to say that the problem of this war is not just a question of war and diplomacy. It is part and parcel of everything that we are trying as human beings to communicate to people in this country - the question of racism which is rampant in the military, and so many other questions such as the use of weapons; the hypocrisy in our taking umbrage at the Geneva Conventions and using that as justification for a continuation of this war when we are more guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions; in the use of free fire zones, harassment interdiction fire, search and destroy missions, the bombings, the torture of prisoners, all accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam. That is what we are trying to say. It is part and parcel of everything.

An American Indian friend of mine who lives in the Indian Nation of Alcatraz put it to me very succinctly. He told me how as a boy on an Indian reservation he had watched television and he used to cheer the cowboys when they came in and shot the Indians, and then suddenly one day he stopped in Vietnam and he said, "my God, I am doing to these people the very same thing that was done to my people," and he stopped. And that is what we are trying to say, that we think this thing has to end.

We are here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently, where are the leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We're here to ask where are McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatrick, and so many others? Where are they now that we, the men they sent off to war, have returned? These are the commanders who have deserted their troops. And there is no more serious crime in the laws of war. The Army says they never leave their wounded. The marines say they never even leave their dead. These men have left all the casualties and retreated behind a pious shield of public rectitude. They've left the real stuff of their reputations bleaching behind them in the sun in this country....

We wish that a merciful God could wipe away our own memories of that service as easily as this administration has wiped away their memories of us. But all that they have done and all that they can do by this denial is to make more clear than ever our own determination to undertake one last mission - to search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbaric war, to pacify our own hearts, to conquer the hate and fear that have driven this country these last ten years and more. And more. And so when thirty years from now our brothers go down the street without a leg, without an arm, or a face, and small boys ask why, we will be able to say "Vietnam" and not mean a desert, not a filthy obscene memory, but mean instead where America finally turned and where soldiers like us helped it in the turning.

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Postby LouisFarragher » Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:38 pm

sen. kerrys bad joke was no joke at all in his subconciences he realizes the eventuality of the comming forth of a revision to bring back the draft no i'm not second guessing him the stay in school remark or go to war my beef with him is that the cost of a good education would be a waste of a potential money earner tax paying citizen so if you drop out your chances your new lottery number will be up and your off to war when we went off to viet nam we too thought we were doing the right thing remember the pay boy now we think the draft was our governments return to slavery hey pal the pays much better enough to die for take a minute 26,000 are homeless most of them were drafted tell you somthing i'm as patroitic as the next guy and i love america but the broken promises this government has shafted us take your pork barrel spending away from us veterans and choke on it you scumbags hey brothers anyone remember getting two checks for your gi education and when you sasked what they were for you were told don't look a gift horse in the mouth so you cashed them and their went your education l.j.f.

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Postby perfumeriver » Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:16 pm

Dateline:

Quang Nam Province, RVN.

Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 1 st Marines

Hill 10

The helicopters were lined up. Three platoons ready for an assault/search operation. Transport by helicopters.

The First Sargent called us aside and stately clearly and unequivocally that when we return that no one is to talk to anyone of the Press. That no one was to mention the direction that the helicopters traveled in. That no one is to mention how long the helecopters were in the air.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what direction we were traveling in. How long we were in the air. And the air speed of the helicopters.

So where did we go? LAOS !

Laos was a "neutral" country and we were not supposed to be there. Let's skip all the secret CIA operations for a moment.

What does this have to do with John Kerry? Well the Swift Boat fruits stated that John Kerry never went to Cambodia. That none of them went to Cambodia. Hmmmm. Well, we "never" went to Laos either. But we did. There were no border crossings. There was no passport checks. Nothing about Laos was logged in anywhere. But we were there. Hmmm.

Wouldn't it be nice to HAVE a Vietnam veteran as president of these United States.

Oh, but not Al Gore who served in Vietnam and did not shirk his duty. No, not John Kerry who did not shirk his duty. And now, I fear, not Senator John McCain who did not shirk his duty.

I am so tired of the falsehoods, lies, and deceptions of the likes of Rush Limbaugh (who never served) or Sean Hannity (who never served) or Bill O'Reilly (who never served) hmmm . . . .

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John Kerry and Vietnam

Postby dman001948 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:54 pm

There is only ONE thing good I can say about John the commie Kerry and that is he serve in Vietnam, that I give credit for his 3 months.

In his 1971 speech to the Congress, John Kerry self admitted to doing all those things he accuse our troops of doing, why was he not charge with war crimes? As a matter of fact, why do this day, has he not been charge with war crimes?
He betray our country and met with the enemy in France saying he was on his honeymoon, well let run this one by you, Do you think for one mintue a N.V. dipomat is going let as American just walk up to his table and invite himself for a sit down and discuss on how to end the war? No! First he must get by the N.V. security and the only way to do that is to have a prearrange meeting, did I mention we were winning the war and N.V. were about to throw in the white towel until Kerry came along!

It is almost proven that Kerry received a less then honorable discharge from the Navy for that very meeting and it took President Carter through the help of one each Kennedy to upgrade Kerry's discharge, then Kerry could get all his medals back, Kerry claim it was to just get his medals back, well I requested all my medals and didn't take the President to re-issue my medals, just a honorable discharge!!! Remember Kerry never did open up ALL his records just what he wanted to be seen.

Kerry is the biggest peice of crap in the Senate today and at anytime in our history.

Him and McCain sat on the POW investagation, that resulted in nothing, when there were confirm sightings of POW's. Then they just close the books on them. I heard a intern that work with Kerry came into Kerry's office day after the POW thing was close and Kerry was shedding papers that pretain to the POW's and the intern ask Kerry what he was doing and Kerry said, Oh these are dups and I'm getting rid of them, guess what? They were the orginals!!!!! A Kerry cover up...

Some of you may think Kerry is a hero, but then again you think that micky dee's is a 5 star rest.

I could go on and on about this bum, like how he put himself in for purple hearts going against his commanders directions on the matter...

Kerry even admitted that he was wrong about Laos when his own ship mates and the ships logs and his commander, said no we didn't, but yet it was "Sear" into his mind!!! Yep sure was...
Dennis Rick CWO Retired

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Postby codycap » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:06 pm

I totally agree with you.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.ph ... e&sid=8207

This week, T Boone Pickens, famous for offering a million dollars to anyone who could prove John Kerry earned his combat awards got a dressing down by Senator Al Franken.screenhunter_04_aug._06_12.46 Picken spent $3 million spreading what were later proven to be total lies.

Pickens, who refused to serve during the Korean War, stuck it to paralyzed veterans when his challenge was met and his Swift Boat politicos were proven liars.

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Postby dacuhnaa » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:27 pm

What are the fundamental aspects of Democracy? I want a list of fundamental aspects of democracy. For example, one might be certain undeniable freedoms and rights.
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